Hardcore "Feminists"

I had an argument with some "feminists" on an email list just yesterday. It went like this:

"Feminists": I kind of feel that people can't wear something designed to attract attention (whether that is a teeny bikini or a neon jumpsuit) and not then expect to turn a few heads, but that doesn't mean anyone wearing a skirt in a public place should give up their right to privacy.

Me: Yea, I hate those creeps. Dressing a little more conservatively might help.

"Feminists": No.

Me: Why not?

"Feminists": Because I refuse to learn to hate my body. Because my (potential) daughters deserve to have the freedom to dress in whatever way they want. Because I'm not responsible for guys. Because rather then cower in fear (which dressing sensibly is) actually telling guys they're going over the line is more effective. Because my mothers generation fought to allow me to wear pants, or a miniskirt.

Me: Well, good for you. Wear whatever you want then.

"Feminists": But the creeps will try to take upskirt shots of me! And they're always ogling!

Me: Oh, look. There's a limit to what the law can do to protect us. So, if you're so bothered by that, why not take a proactive approach to the problem? Dress conservatively.

"Feminists": I don't buy that! That's like saying that a woman deserved to be raped because of the way she dressed, wore her hair or applied her makeup!

Me: Well, yea I agree that it's both illegal and wrong, but if you're really so bothered by people looking or taking upskirt shots, why don't you wear something modest?

"Feminists": Perhaps we should all take to wearing a burka? Is that proactive approach enough? *Anti-Islam sarcasm*

Me: If you want to, why not? A longer skirt for instance, will make it harder for creeps to strike. Logical?

"Feminists": Logical, and indeed a concession to the nasty reality in which we live. OTOH it's pandering to the same old crap- we ask for it because we dress a certain way. It puts the responsibility for idiot pervert men's behavior on us. We try to keep Linuxchix as one tiny place in the world where we don't get hassled by pervs and creeps. I don't believe you are a woman, just another creepy guy who gets off on messing with us.

Now, somebody tell me if the conversation wasn't going in circles?

That's kind of like saying they want to take a few million dollars in a clear plastic bag with them everywhere they go and expect not to be robbed. I suppose what they're saying is, they want to dress scantily and make it illegal for men to even look at them? How is that any better than a law that requires women to be covered from head to toe when they're in public?

Is there a correlation between scanty-dressing and rape? Rapists target women who are perceived to be vulnerable, and not necessarily those who dress provocatively, so the answer is no. But is there a correlation between scanty-dressing and ogling by men? You bet!

I removed myself from the list immediately after that. As long as you're not part of their groupthink, you can expect some severe lashing from them. The more you try to talk sense into them, the more likely you're gonna end up in the mud with them. G.I.G.O. - You will end up talking trash like they do.

Whining can be healthy, but obsessive and persistent whining without action isn't.

Would you waste your time to correct an extremist feminist? I think I'd much rather listen to Ann Coulter's ramblings.

What can we gather from all this?

They're not interested in any solution. They enjoy whining about their problems and what not. Why do they do that? Because all they want is to hate, as this hatred is an escape from the harsh realities of this world. So consumed are they by their hatred for people (not just men) that there's really no reason to believe they will not remain this way for the rest of their lives.

Thanks, but I'm not buying into this ideology of hatred.